Naked Mile Interview:

The Grad Student

'm here in the Rendezvous Cafe next with Ben -- a handsome fellow with a very short haircut. [Ed. note: He's even more handsome than it appears from the photo, which distorts his face somewhat because it was taken from up close with a semi-wide-angle lens.] He was just telling me something about himself so now I'd like him to explain the same thing for the tape recorder.

Sure! My name is Ben, I'm a Masters of Social Work student here at the University of Michigan. What can I tell you... I'm 37, born in Iowa...

Where did you study as an undergraduate?

I went to the University of Iowa.

Majored in what?

A few different things; ended up with a General Studies degree, focusing in the social sciences -- some philosophy and political science particularly. Then here in Ann Arbor for about 2 years. I originally came here to study with a rabbi -- I'm actually studying to be a rabbi in the "Secular Humanist" Jewish movement.

ow did you hear about tonight's wonderful event?

I have a friend who teaches in Near Eastern Languages -- and last year he said, so have you heard about the Naked Mile? -- and I said, No! -- what is the Naked Mile? And so we ran.

This was last year?

Last year, yeah, 1998. I caught a cold; it was kind of chilly. We weren't sure when the actual event was going to start, so we stood around and a lot of our body heat was lost. He ended up being fine but I ended up with a cold. But then again ... It was very interesting so I was definitely planning on doing it this year; I'm gonna have to see how it feels because I have a final exam tomorrow. I don't want to be wasted for it.

I wasn't a student when I ran last year; I actually came to Ann Arbor to work with a congregation.

nd then you decided to join the School of Social Work?

Yeah, a bunch of people from my congregation are professors in the School of Social Work, and they said I should consider the programs they have there. There's a Jewish Studies social work program link -- that program didn't work out for me, so I went over to the School of Social Work.

How many of your friends have run in the Naked Mile? You mentioned at least one from last year.

Mostly I only know friends of friends [who ran] -- and the one who invited me to come and run with him. Both he and I attend local naturist events, especially the monthly hot tub parties that are co-sponsored by the Southeast Michigan Naturists [a heterosexual group] and the Sunshine Partners gay and bi men's group. We go to those every month. He's straight, and was involved in naturism in Israel, which is where he's from. And I was involved to some extent in Seattle.

Wreck Beach and all?

Wreck Beach in Vancouver, sure! And I've been very active in the Bi movement, and so actually a group of us from Seattle with some friends from Portland went up and visited some folks in the bi community in Vancouver, so of course we went to Wreck Beach. Also when we'd go down to Portland we'd go to Sauvie Island.

or someone who's 37 years old this sounds like a strange question to ask -- but do your parents know you plan to run in the Naked Mile?

I don't know if they do, but they do know I'm a naturist.

How do they feel about that?

I think it's probably no surprise to them, because they walked around the house without clothes when I was a kid, you know. Just casually -- not social nudism, but just because it was laundry day, or they'd just gotten up in the morning. But I think being outside naked is something that -- just because they're 70 and a different generation -- it's not familiar to them, but it doesn't seem unusual. They think of me as a very healthy person: I'm a vegan -- have been a vegetarian for 23 years -- and a very physically active person -- I ride my bike everywhere. It fits the whole picture. They're sort of into ecology themselves, animal habitat preservation, and so on. They understand the whole "natural" idea.

ne of the things that I notice when I read about the Naked Mile -- especially in official University publications -- people are worried that this is going to hurt someone's future career. For example, will a future candidate for president of the United States lose the race for president because she had been photographed running the Naked Mile...

As long as she didn't inhale, she would probably win! [We laugh.]

So you don't think that this would affect your career.

No! I know as sort of a comical thing, for example, studying with my rabbinical advisor, we were talking about what's appropriate for different situations. For example, if you're going to a wedding, what would you wear here or there, and what if you were doing a wedding at a nudist camp? What do you wear? Several of us in the secular humanist Jewish movement feel that not only are we philosophically naturalists, believing that we live in the natural world, but we have a much more sex-positive, body-positive set of attitudes. A lot of people come to our movement from the liberal end of the spectrum on a lot of issues, so it's probably the most body-positive branch of Judaism.

The three major branches are Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform?

Yes, and then of course there's Reconstructionist and Renewal, and Secular Humanism -- which are newer movements coming out of the 60s.

But your branch is part of Reform?

No, no, it's the Secular Humanist group. It's the movement that [well-known area rabbi] is one of the leaders of; he's the Humanist part of the movement. And then there's the secular part of the movement, which comes out of the old Jewish labor movements. There's a lot of opinions mixed in there.

 was in Jerusalem once several years ago for a conference, and I noticed that it must be the Orthodox who insist that if you're going to bathe or swim in the ocean, men and women bathe separately?

Yes, that would probably be Orthodox, where body modesty would be understood even more conservatively than it would in mainstream American society. I think the Orthodox men even wear [bathing suit] tops.

Yes, I think so.

The American/European Conservative movement is much more liberal than that.

ack to the Naked Mile. What makes the Naked Mile unique?

I don't have a hell of a lot to compare it to, but it's certainly unique in that a large number of people get together for an event in a public space that is not a naturist movement space, nor a marginal public space. It's right in the center of town, not out in some big park where very few people are around. It gets a lot of public attention.

Then there's the interesting public response -- "this is OK, it's playful, part of our small-town urban tradition" -- so it's accepted in a way. You've got the campus and city police present and they're not arresting people. You also have a lot of volunteers, probably university students who volunteer to make sure it's safe, which is really a great thing, although it's sort of too bad that we have to guarantee safety. But that's the culture we live in, unfortunately. It's nice to see that there's community people who think it's a positive enough event to volunteer their time for it. Maybe some of them are naturists or sympathetic.

It's also unique in that it's done in fucking chilly weather! Usually most of us who like to do this sort of thing like to do it when it's warm. And it's at night, and naturists usually do things during the daytime outdoors. There's a lot of twists to it.

It's also unique that there's a lot of "I dare you to be there" stuff. That some people come on dares. Maybe they need to do that in order to give themselves permission to be there. I think that's an unfortunate aspect of our culture -- that we don't have a more positive way. Sometimes people use alcohol or substances to lower their internalized prohibitions. I didn't see that much of that, although I certainly saw some of it. And some of the athletic teams participate, too -- mostly male (I didn't see female athletic teams), and groups of guys who do pickup athletics.

That lends a jock-ish sort of power trip to some of the participants, and I think that that's sort of unfortunate -- mostly because I have a critical attitude about that sort of warrior spirit to nudism. It's almost the cult of the male body -- strength and power -- versus an appreciation of the human being as animal form, as life form on the planet. I like to go there with my friends, and be positive about a crack in the social repression in which suddenly people express this body-positive thing. A lot of people in the community -- for whatever reason -- don't stop it, so there's some resonance of the positive attitude there and the life energy there.

The life energy comes through in a way, and that for me is what I find attractive about the Naked Mile as a spiritual event. For some of us, it's that freedom energy and life energy that's coming through, and I know that people from other religious or spiritual traditions come at that from a very different vantage point and have a big problem with things like the Naked Mile. Chances are they've never been to one or run in one and don't know what it feels like.

I would question whether they knew what an ancient baptism was like, if people were naked in the waters, feeling like they were being reborn. In some ways, that kind of spiritual ceremony -- of being naked before God, that's what you imagine it to be. My religious perspectives are different, but it's similar in that "Naked before the source of life", naked before the grandeur of the universe, the power of creativity, and that ultimate insight which flows in consciousness that will recognize us for what we really are. You wear your clothes, you talk your talk, you do your stuff, you have your possessions, but beyond all of that there's the truth of the matter, and nudity can help us to get to that spiritual place. We can say like "drop the BS, put away the baggage -- [just] me and you." I think that there are some people who can feel that at this event.

ow did it feel for you running last year?

It felt exhilarating. Really exhilarating. It was interesting -- of course we're running through crowds of people on both sides of us, maybe 10 feet apart or less, it gets real narrow in places. It felt really exhilarating to have people who knew me say "hi!" as I was going by, and the humor of the event. (It probably feels different for me as a man than for women, and it probably feels different for me being a healthy, fairly robust fellow -- versus people who don't run at all, or don't bike, or who get winded.) It felt really exhilarating, and I think I probably ran faster than I might have, because my friend and I ended up hopping into line behind one of the athletic teams, so we're trying to keep up with it a bit and realizing that there wasn't anybody behind us.

So we didn't really keep up very well, but it was fun and we ended up talking with the people who were standing around. You know, we didn't really think we'd end up standing around -- a couple of naked guys in a bunch of people who had their clothes on! Gosh, that's all right. It was fun! People were in pretty good humor.

hat's the most wonderful thing about the Naked Mile?

The feeling of the possibility that things can be different than they are on a day to day basis. That there could be more freedom, more of a positive attitude about people being who they are in nature, being natural -- versus being excessively covered up and disguised beings.

What's the most disturbing thing?

Some of the verbal comments that people were judging people's bodies, or there were some people who made inappropriate contact. I didn't see much of that but I did see some. It was mostly men on women. It was definitely inappropriate, heterosexual male objectification of women.

Along the lines of, if you're a naked woman then you must be a slut, so I can touch you?

Well, if it even had that much thought to it.

ou said you didn't see alcohol and other substances being used that much, although some of it was?

Some of the sports teams or frat groups may have done so, but those were very small numbers of people among the much larger numbers of average folks who were just out there to have a good time. Some people on the sidelines may have been drinking -- it's 10 o'clock at night, you could easily have scheduled a drink or two for yourself by that time.

How about homophobia?

I didn't really see that, not that it wasn't present. I didn't encounter any.

How about sleazy guys with video cameras?

Yeah, I think that there was definitely some of that. That's one of the more disturbing elements. Because the event can be -- and really at its best, is about -- a liberating feeling and about safety and about living pleasure -- being alive and in the moment. [It's unfortunate] that some people would think that somehow because it's in public and they have equipment that they can just film it. I think it's sad for those people who don't understand the liberatory possibilities of it.

I understand that some people want to document this, and it's like, nyaaaaah, if somebody was documenting it from an ethical point of view, they would walk up, probably naked themselves, to be in the moment with the whole thing and say to someone, "I'm so and so, I'm documenting this event, would you like an interview, would you like to talk for this project? I'm trying to understand it myself," and if [the answer is] "yes", then yes [it's OK] or "no" -- no -- and then respect those limits. People who think that they have the right to record the event on film without people's permission have a misguided sense of what the ethical responsibility is behind using that equipment at a public event. Would they film somebody's wedding or funeral, or another kind of celebration or religious event, or somebody baring their soul laughing or crying in a way that would objectify it? If they would, then they've got some serious problems, and that's sad for them. But I think the overall feeling of the event is much more powerful and healing than that... And hopefully they might get some healing in those moments, although I would question whether they do. I don't know.

hy do you think that the university administration dislikes the run?

It obviously has financial liabilities. Something could go wrong. Somebody could fall and hurt themselves, somebody could get raped. Donors [alums] may not like it. I mean, who knows? There's all sorts of financial reasons. They're administrators -- they try to think about those things. That's doing their job, but it's sad that there isn't an appreciation of the beauty of the event. If they could understand why people are doing it, and what's positive about it, they might have a different attitude.

Why do you think the race has survived all these years?

I think precisely because it's become one of those antinomian traditions that blows off steam. Look at what happened in Lansing [Michigan, home of Michigan State University] a couple of weeks ago: there was this sort of sports riot. The Naked Mile is very harmless. People could get hurt here, there's no doubt about it, but it's by and large a pretty positive event. If the administration were more supportive it would be even safer, and a happier outcome would be had, but it's overall been pretty positive.

I think the bonding is really important -- you've already mentioned that. Stereotypically, men are supposed to bond in our culture, and we don't talk much about female bonding. Do women who run in the Mile bond also?

Well, I couldn't tell you from any firsthand discussions. All I could observe was that women certainly typically seemed to be in some groupings with either a whole group of women or a group of women and male friends. I think for very understandable reasons I didn't see any women running alone last year. I think that's a positive thing, that women know they have to watch for their safety. I honestly only talked with a couple of women who ran with women and man friends, and they experienced some sort of general bonding that went with the friendship, but they didn't specifically talk about women-women bonding. I didn't specifically focus on male-male bonding, either -- although since my friend is also male, I felt that [male-male bonding] was another aspect of our relationship, that we break a taboo, and do this fun thing....

o you see a connection between being bi and running in the run?

I think that for me, my politics and my spirituality and my bisexuality all hook up. In my values, I see a theme of the erasure of lines of demarcation that restrict freedom and life energy. If we're lucky as a human species we'll be able to erase national boundaries, racial boundaries, not that they won't exist in some functional way, but that they won't be armed, and violent, and sources of confrontation but rather sources of enrichment and understanding. I make the effort to erase the lines between myself and other species in being a vegetarian -- I don't consider other species to be less important.

Clothes are often status markers in our society, and by erasing status marking we all become human beings on the level with one another. Erasure is a long process, but it's a therapeutic process. It's saying, let's get beyond the false distinctions, and get to the real differences and similarities and appreciate those.

For me the Naked Mile is one piece in an overall puzzle of pieces that make sense in a context. If you only see the Naked Mile out of context of people's lives, it's value may seem very puzzling and difficult for people to understand if they've never been there.

nything else you want to say about the Naked Mile?

Just that people who have ever felt the pleasure of being with friends in an exhilarating moment outside, in the world -- you've got a clue to what this is about. It's not so different from that. It's a huge surge of feeling freedom and feeling like a sense of divisions being lowered. Incredible basic kinds of human solidarity that happen when people drop their defenses, drop their pretenses. It's a beautiful thing.

OK -- thank you very much! 

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