Jim's Pen is Central Page is extraordinarily proud to present our seventh
Dick of the week: Yes, it's true: everybody's got a dick. And
whether he'll admit it or not, every guy likes to talk about his
dick. Big, small, or average; in great shape or out of order;
tan, brown, reddish, pink, or black; hard or soft; in use or
ignored... Everybody's Got
One! ...and
everybody's talking about it. Read the interview below, and don't
forget to check out the photos!
Then check back in a week or so to meet a new face, a new interview,
and a new dick!
Joel is tall (6' 4") -- and dark and handsome, as you can see above.
Our interview this week is with Joel, who lives within driving distance of Provincetown (Massachusetts) and who first attended a gay nudist gathering last August -- where I met him outside the Gathering office, waiting for it to open. I was seated, he was standing -- so my eyes were about at the level of his dick. At one point I asked for permission to photograph his dick for my website, and he agreed. As I alternated between taking photos of his face, his torso, and his dick, I noticed his dick was growing larger and we were, without talking about it, getting into an unplanned, small-scale voyeur-exhibitionist scene. So I asked him if he'd like to talk about his dick -- and of course he said yes.
I conducted the interview in two parts: first in August -- where we met -- and again in October -- by phone, to finish it off.
OK, let's start with the question that everyone always wants to know the answer to: Just how big is your dick, anyway?
Bigger than average. I never measured. I'm the only gay man I know who never did.
Though
many will claim not to!
Well, this one's true.
Oh yeah? (grinning)
Yeah, people measure from different starting points, so it's when we climb in bed that you'll find out.
(Still teasing him) We're going to climb in bed??
(Smiling) No, with whoever is asking me the question -- usually because we're about to have sex. There haven't been any complaints yet, except for an old boyfriend who wouldn't let me fuck him -- he said it hurt.
So
how thick is it?
(Holds up his finger in a ring.) I can get my hand around it -- but I have big hands. No, wait a minute -- I can't get my whole hand around it, but I can get a good grip.
So when you jerk off, does your thumb touch or overlap your fingers?
It overlaps, yeah. It's not a two-fisted baby!
How much does the thumb overlap?
Oh, boy, I haven't paid much attention. Not that I haven't done it often enough! Maybe it's second nature now. If we weren't where we are right now I'd try it and I could let you know (he smiles, knowing that erections in the open are frowned upon at the Gathering). My mother told me not to masturbate at the supper table.
Funny, my mom never told me that!
Actually, it never came up. Since there was a certain dress code for dinner I would have automatically supposed you couldn't jerk off. We had to wear a dress shirt and slacks for dinner -- no jeans, no t-shirts.
So your parents abused you by not letting you jerk off at the dinner table?
(Laughs out loud and throws head back.) No, my parents never talked about sex, period, until after an incident which occurred when I went to a summer camp like this (as a boy, but not nude). My parents or my father must have been told that three other boys and I were caught in a single bunk one night because we all got books.... the most god-awful coming-of-age sex education book. The fathers must have all gotten together and these books were left on our beds. That was the last time sex was ever mentioned. It was a typical Irish Catholic household: there were six children but God knows how it ever came about!
So how did you find out that the other boys got the books too?
We all talked about it. We went racing through the books trying to find the dirty parts. But all it talked about was deodorant. They talked about liking girls, too, although I didn't "get" that part of it.
Did the other two boys turn out gay?
I don't know. One of the boys about five years later I ran into because I became the swimming instructor at a swim school. He turned up as an assistant instructor, but we never talked about what we had done. Because he was rather effeminate, the other senior instructors all decided that they were going to pull some kind of prank on this kid. He found out about it, and he was very smart: he approached me and said, "You pull a lot of weight -- you could stop that prank if you really wanted to. I'd hate for that incident 5 years ago at Camp Swampass to get out."
So nothing happened to him. That's the first and only time I've been blackmailed as a gay man!
You had also mentioned to me before the interview that your high school swim team had an interesting custom having to do with dicks and pubic hair.
My Catholic high school swimming team had a custom. Before a meet all the team members would shave down -- shave off all the body hair except for the head. We didn't need to shave our heads because we'd wear a cap. The standard practice was that kids would shave at home in their own bathrooms.
But a few of us -- well, we all used to go over to L's house because his parents both worked and we would have a shave-down party and we'd shave each other -- which I still find very erotic. For the shaving -- as for most of the time during swim practice -- we'd wear two swimsuits, believe it or not. Underneath we'd wear our Lycra suit -- which is a very brief swimsuit. Over that we'd wear a Speedo -- what everyone else thinks is very skimpy. And we would just shave each other, usually two guys would shave one guy, and we all hoped that no one else would notice the erections.
An onlooker, sarcastically: Which they all had, right?
Oh, God (yes)! Not all the guys would join the shaving parties; the participants turned out to be mostly the gay ones. The straight ones would shave on their own -- although some of the straight ones would join the parties because they were fun. We did all the things that the coach would have killed us for doing if he found out -- smoking or drinking. He was also the Dean of Students.
So I'm not sure I understand. How can you shave a guy's pubic hair while he's wearing a suit?
You're not shaving at the crotch itself -- just the chest and the legs. It's a little too dangerous to get too close to the pubes, but the deal was, we'd have to shave ourselves for the two inches between the Speedo and the Lycra suits.
The Lycra is what you wore for the meets?
Right. Speedos is what we wore daily.
So why were the suits so tiny?
Drag. Coefficient of friction.
The more cloth, the slower the race?
The slower your speed. The human skin can cut through water much easier than fabric can.
And you could feel the difference between the two kinds of suits?
Yeah, like if you wear boxers when you go swimming, versus Speedos. If you go from Speedos to Lycra in a hundred yard freestyle you may only cut off a tenth of a second -- but you can win a race by less.
So what would happen if you swam nude? And pubic shaved?
You'd be disqualified. You had to keep the suit on.
What would happen to your time, in theory?
If you were shaved, I assume your time would be faster. Of course the Lycra suit is going to keep everything tucked up, so I'm not really sure. The (swimming) Federation doesn't allow you to swim nude, and other than freestyle they won't allow you to change your stroke to pull your suit up if it slips down while swimming.
So you want the suit to stay in place.
That suit is tight enough on you -- it's not comfortable.
Did your dick ever get hard while you were wearing a Lycra suit?
(Long pause.) I don't think so. I don't recall.
NOTE: In October, we met by phone to complete the interview. To remind him and me of what he'd already described, I read back the transcript to him first. I got to this point -- where he hadn't recalled getting an erection in a Lycra suit -- and he changed his mind:Oh, yeah -- I do remember one time. We were having the big swim meet at S College; they have an enormous pool there. And a bunch of us were horsing around before the meet; we'd done our warm-up, and we were in the water horsing around. I got behind one of the other swimmers and grabbed him in a bear hug -- much like the photo you sent me with me and Greg -- and I got an erection. As it happened, at that point the race official called everyone out of the water. I pretended not to hear because I had a hardon and I didn't want to get out, so I swam another 50 yards trying to settle down. I don't recall if I still had one getting out; if I did it wasn't as strong.
Any other times?
Soaping up in the shower, you wouldn't get a full erection, but you would (pretend to) make sure there was no chlorine in your pubic hairs -- which took an awful lot of time! A lot of the guys spent a LOT of time in the shower. (He pauses.) Actually, not nearly enough time in the shower!
Any other times, did you get sports-related erections?
My sister's boyfriend who was a tennis pro, was teaching me a serve. He was standing behind me, with his arms around me, leading my arms in the direction for a serve, and I instantly became hard. I was very jealous of my sister after that!
Then, as a grownup, it happened about 6 years ago when a good friend was teaching me proper free weight form -- you know, standing butterfly shoulder exercises. I was standing behind him in his tight shorts and bubble butt and followed his arms as he did the lifting in proper form.
(Now, back to the August interview.)
You didn't get hard wearing the Lycra suit because it was typically at a swim meet. Your parents were there, students were there watching, and all that. But we would usually jerk off before the shaving parties, because you could stay calm a little longer. I jerked off after practices all the time -- and we practiced twice a day.
The suit really didn't have a sexual feeling -- it was more like "I'm going swimming, I'll put on a damn suit." But the showers afterwards -- when everyone was soaping off the chlorine -- we would be in the showers for an awful long time. I learned afterwards that one should watch who showered facing the wall and who showered facing out. Some guys would not take their suits off even in the shower! Whether that was because they had an erection but didn't want the other guys to see it because they suspected they might be gay, I don't know.... We were all afraid to say anything because we didn't want anyone pointing the finger at us. None of us were out as gay.
So facing the wall meant what?
It meant you're straight. If you're facing the group, you're looking.
(I'm about to contradict him.) Well I remember in college when I got hardons...
Oh, if you had a hardon YOU faced that wall! But you got your hardon by looking away from the wall.
I see. That was certainly true for me.
So how often did your dick get hard in the showers?
In the showers with the guys? Almost nightly. Not a raging hardon, but it would start to get erect, a semi-erection, and then I'd have this dilemma: would I stay and enjoy myself and rub my crotch more -- thinking, "my God, it feels good" or do I protect myself from the other guys seeing it and get out of the shower now? I was always toying with both options, back and forth: how far can I go? After all, how many times do you really have to soap up your crotch?
I was never fingered, I was never pointed out as gay. We would talk about the diving team being fags because they would shower before we did. It's always good to have an enemy.
So how did you know the swim team members were fags?
We just had to accuse somebody, because if you could point the finger at someone else then you must be straight. And one of them was gay. I don't know about the others. But none of us were openly gay at the time, none of us did anything gay until college -- when several guys did (come out).
(End of the August interview.)
(Beginning of October interview.)
So what's the biggest dick you've ever slept with?
I've been told he had 10 and a half inches, but I don't remember sleeping with him -- it was 15 years ago, and I think I must have been drunk or something. He's told me we slept together -- and he has quite a reputation around town.
What's the smallest dick you've ever slept with?
Um, uh, I don't really pay that much attention to size. I would guess it would be this guy who was cruising me when I was with my ex-boyfriend at a gay fundraising auction, and then I ran into him at a pickup bar later on. He's cute, so we made it back to my place, even though I didn't remember him from the auction. His dick was extremely small. I usually don't notice, but this was one the size of my pinkie finger -- both length and diameter. I was afraid I could use it to floss with (chuckles).
Which is easier to keep hard, a big dick or a small dick?
I don't know, I only have one in the middle size range! Uh, physics would tell me that a small dick would be easier to keep hard, because it would require less blood.
But in your experience?
Big dicks are difficult to GET hard; smaller to average dicks can often get hard very quickly and stay that way.
What's the weirdest dick you've ever slept with?
That would be the one that was strapped on to her! (He laughs, joking.) I don't think I've ever had a weird dick. Everybody's is different, but that's not weird.
The most beautiful dick?
My first boyfriend's.
And that one was beautiful because?
Partly because it was attached to him.
Any other reason?
In a purely detached way... uh... it seemed to be just the right size, I could take it down my throat, and it had a nice shape.
How big was that perfect-sized dick?
Don't know; I never measured it.
Which do you prefer: cut or uncut?
Uncut; it's hard to come by (because) parents seem to have this thing about knives.
And why do you prefer uncut?
It's much more sensitive for the uncut guy, and while some guys think it's a real turnoff -- all that extra skin -- I think it's a turnon. When it gets hard the head of the dick appears, as if by magic. Plus, it's natural.
Is your dick hard now that we've been talking about it so much?
You bet!
Are you naked now?
Yup.
You're at home?
Yup. I felt I SHOULD be naked, for continuity's sake!
How nice to see a committed nudist for a change! Have you touched your dick at all while we've been on the phone?
Yup.
Tell me more.
One hand's holding the phone; the other hand's holding my dick. I don't smoke; what else are you going to do with a hand? I'm sitting at my computer and on the screen I have a picture of the "little guy" (Greg) who was there during the interview with us.
You
think he's cute?
Uh, yeah.
Is his dick the right size?
For him it is.
How does it compare to a perfect-sized dick for you?
His is substantially smaller, but I think it looks really nice.
He WAS a really nice person, wasn't he?
He was. I wish we had talked after the interview.
What would you have have liked to do with HIS dick?
I would have liked to have swung on it for awhile!
Wouldn't that hurt?
No, I would be kneeling down, with him on a table.
Tell me more.
With him, because he was substantially smaller than me, smaller guys... Since he came up to me, I assumed at the time that he was attracted to me, and usually it's because they like bigger guys. I'm 6'4"; he was about 5'7". They're usually looking for a top, although he surprised me when he said he was usually a top. So -- I'm guessing -- maybe he wanted to try being a bottom and see how it went? And I would have been more than happy to oblige. If he had wanted to play top, I would have been OK with that, too. Top doesn't mean who's fucking who, it's who's choreographing the evening encounter -- who's in charge. [NOTE: Joel understands that he's just speculating here, and doesn't really know what was going on in Greg's mind.]
So if you were in charge, what would you do with him?
I'm looking at the picture now of the two of us facing each other. Uh... It would all depend on what his (pause) reaction was. As I would start something I'd have to see his reaction to it, and I'd change my style according to that reaction, hoping I was picking up the right signals.
What do you imagine might happen?
We would lie down, I'd lie on top of him, rubbing up and down our crotches, some really heavy kissing. (As an aside:) Now I'm very hard! Maybe a little wrestling around, even though he's smaller, you just put up enough resistance to make it a fight, and then you let him see if he wants to get on top. If so, you let that happen. If I was back on top I might scoot down and start licking his dick and his balls and playing with his nipples.
Whereas if he moved to stay on top you'd be happily on the bottom.
Yeah!
There's a theory that says that the reason why our culture represses sexuality so much is that it makes ordinary things sexier than they otherwise would be. For example, you knew that smoking and getting hard with other guys were both forbidden, so you wanted to try them both out, and the fact that they were both forbidden made them exciting. Of course, Catholics attending Catholic schools are famous for having a lot of rules to follow and a lot of guilt for breaking those rules. Do you agree with this theory, and what effect do you think your Catholic upbringing had on your sexuality?
I don't think my Catholic upbringing had anything to do with my sexual orientation, but you mean my sexuality more generally? (Yes.) My feelings toward sex, no -- no influence. It may have earlier, when the Catholic church had a hold over me. Actually, I don't know if anyone ever gets out from under it, totally -- I'm a recovering Catholic! My views toward sex... I think when I was in Catholic school, yeah, they had a very strong control over me. My family and the church were all one and the same, almost. Now my views are seen as radical, I think, by the Catholic church and by my parents and family. We don't discuss my views. They all know I'm gay.
Is it true what they say about the nuns?
Which part?
Any part that you've heard.
Well, my best female friend is living with a former nun. (And?) Her views on sex are pretty wild.
Tell me more.
I just met her down in Provincetown when they were on vacation. They had rented a cottage with maid service, so I had my room and they were in theirs. Both nights, Housekeeping found a tube of KY in their room and discreetly tucked it away under the pillow. My friend, who's rather a prude sexually, was devastated by this openness -- even more so the fact that I'm hearing it from her girlfriend!
She's very open about sex?
Yes, we'd talk about sexual things even before I met her face to face. She told me she'd tried to tie F. up, and F. loved it, at least the first time.
By the way, what do they say about the nuns? That they're sadistic?
Yes. Among other things.
There weren't that many nuns left when I was there. I had a gay (male) teacher for one of my classes.
How did you know he was gay?
He didn't come right out and say it, but he picked out certain students in the classes, and tried to let us know that it was OK to be gay, without saying I know you're gay. He would drop hints, and if you had half a conscious mind you were able to figure out what he was telling you. I did not, until years later. Now I suspect he was gay; if so, he was my only positive role model.
Were you ever molested by a priest or a monk?
No, but a fellow altar boy was killed by a priest in my parish.
That must have made the papers!
No it didn't, not until 15 years 20 years later. He was transferred to another church within the parish, where he molested two boys -- I know because I dated both of them. Then he was moved to the other end of the state, then out of state, and charges followed him wherever he went. Then they were going to do DNA testing, but he got himself a good lawyer, and wouldn't offer up his DNA. Everybody knows he did it (the killing); it just became so obvious. He was seen picking up the boy hitchhiking an hour before his time of death, and the boy had been molested.
I was pulled out of the altar boy program -- my parents wouldn't tell me why. The police picked him up, but the bishop called down to the District Attorney, and basically said, "Let go of my priest" -- and like a good Catholic boy, the D.A. did. The police never pursued it.
Wow!
Have you ever been molested by a nun?
Never been molested, period.
What's the favorite thing you like to do with your dick?
With somebody or alone?
Either.
Alone: talking on the phone while stroking it (laughs).
So you're back to that, eh?
Never stopped!
Even talking about the priest and the boy?
My hand was on my dick, but it was soft.
When I'm with somebody, I like to stroke his dick and get him to stroke mine.
And?
I love to fuck guys, but I don't do that any more, unless I'm in a relationship with a guy. I do AIDS work up here, and it just wouldn't look good.
So what do you like about fucking?
I like the feeling I get and the feeling that he gets. I like fucking in different positions, but I always like to have him end up on his back so I can watch his face.
Doing what?
Contorting.
For what reason?
If he's having a good time!
So do I!
(He laughs.)
Nowadays, in an average week, how many times do you jerk off?
Five? Six?
Have you ever had 5 or more orgasms in one day?
Been a long time!
But yes?
I don't know of any. I had 4 at the (naked) Gathering the first day.
Do you think swimming is a gayer sport than other sports?
Yes.
Why?
You're not relying on someone else for your success, so it's a more personal sport -- an individual sport as opposed to a team sport. Gays growing up feel different and alienated, so we -- or I -- tend towards the individual sports -- tennis, skiing, snowboarding, running, all the sports I do now. I don't do any team sports, except for volleyball.
Anything else you'd to have readers know about your dick or about dicks in general?
My dick is single!
So if they want to contact you, they should write to...?
I don't even know my e-mail address! My e-mail is all messed up at the moment. A friend of mine was coming over to fix it.
[As of 11/8/98, it's fixed. Joel's e-mail address is nkdsnoboarder@hotmail.com.]
Well, as soon as it's working OK, I'll add your e-mail address to this interview. Thanks for volunteering.
You're welcome!
Let me see
Joel's photos.
I want to subscribe!
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of the Week page.
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